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> Autocross on FIR East - Sunday Oct 25th, NASA-X registration now open!
Tage Evanson
post Sep 21 2009, 04:29 PM
Post #1





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 2062
Joined: 14-January 03
Member No.: 39



IMO, FIR East should make for a better/safer road course for an autocross vs FIR West.

* Sunday Oct 25th (doesn't conflict with PHX or Tucson events)
* NASA-X classing
* 5-6 runs
* $40 for NASA members ($50 for non)
* NASA Trophies to the winners of each class
* Paid workers (i.e. NASA will hire workers so you don't have to shag cones)
* "Parade lap" before each run group

* Registration limit = "100"
* Gates open at 6 or 7AM (need to confirm w/FIR)
* 1st car out at 9AM (done by 1PM or sooner)

To register, go here --> https://www.nasaproracing.com/admin/event/993


Here's an entry list as of 10/24 @12:08AM

NASA-X R 2006 Tony Kart Racer EVS Shifter Kart White
NASA-X R 2004 Mazda RX-8 Black
NASA-X R 1999 Subaru forester white
NASA-X R 1986 Zink Z-19 Blk/White
NASA-X R 1965 Lotus Elan Yellow
NASA-X R 2005 Lotus Elise Black
NASA-X R 2004 Mazda RX8 Black
NASA-X R 1999 kgb spy orange/black

NASA-X U 1985 Chevy Camaro black
NASA-X U 1996 Honda Integra Championship White
NASA-X U 1994 Pontiac Firebird Maroon
NASA-X U 1967 Camaro Coupe Silver and Purple
NASA-X U 1999 Chevrolet Corvette Blue
NASA-X U 1995 Honda Civic White
NASA-X U 2008 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Silver

NASA-X S 2003 Subaru Impreza Wrx Black
NASA-X S 2002 BMW M3 Blue
NASA-X S 2007 Porsche GT3 Yellow
NASA-X S 1994 Pontiac Trans Am Burgandy

NASA-X A 2007 Subaru STI Blue
NASA-X A 1998 Pontiac Trans Am Silver
NASA-X A 2002 BMW M3 Silver

NASA-X B 1999 Mazda Miata Black
NASA-X B 2005 mitsubishi evo white
NASA-X B 2004 Mitsubishi Evo VIII Silver
NASA-X B 2004 HONDA S2000 BLUE
NASA-X B 1966 Chevrolet Corvette Red
NASA-X B 2004 Honda S2000 blue
NASA-X B 2004 Honda S2000 Silverstone
NASA-X B 2005 Mitsubishi Evo White
NASA-X B 2005 Subaru Impreza STi Blue
NASA-X B 2006 Subaru Sti Blue
NASA-X B 1998 Acura Integra White
NASA-X B 1998 acura Integra White
NASA-X B 1999 Mazda Miata Black
NASA-X B 2003 BMW 330 Silver
NASA-X B 2005 mitsubishi evo white
NASA-X B 2005 Mitsubishi Evo White

NASA-X C 1995 BMW M3 Blue
NASA-X C 2007 Mini Cooper S Blue
NASA-X C 1991 Honda Civic Dx Red
NASA-X C 2009 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Sedan Black
NASA-X C 2004 MINI Cooper S Silver
NASA-X C 2007 saturn sky redline black
NASA-X C 2002 Porsche Boxster S Black
NASA-X C 2008 Subaru wrx White
NASA-X C 2008 Audi TT Quattro Blue
NASA-X C 2008 Saturn Sky Redline Red
NASA-X C 2009 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Sedan Red
NASA-X C 2003 BMW 330 Silver
NASA-X C 2004 Nissan 350Z Track White

NASA-X D 1993 mazda meita black
NASA-X D 2006 Mazda MX-5 silver
NASA-X D 2006 Mazda Rx-8 Blue
NASA-X D 2004 Volkswagen Golf R32 Blue
NASA-X D 2004 Dodge Neon SRT4 Silver
NASA-X D 1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse Red
NASA-X D 2000 honda s2000 red
NASA-X D 1987 BMW 325i SIlver
NASA-X D 1993 Mazda Miata Black
NASA-X D 1994 Acura Integra Thunder Grey Metallic

NASA-X E 2008 Honda civic Si Galaxy Grey
NASA-X E 1996 BMW 328is Silver
NASA-X E 1995 BMW 325 Red
NASA-X E 2005 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS Crystal Gray Metallic
NASA-X E 2007 honda civic blue
NASA-X E 2007 Ford Mustang White
NASA-X E 1999 Mazda Miata Green
NASA-X E 2008 Mini Cooper S Dark Silver
NASA-X E 2001 Toyota Celica GT Carbon Blue
NASA-X E 1999 Mazda Miata green
NASA-X E 2009 mazda mx-5 yellow
NASA-X E 1999 Chevrolet S10 white
NASA-X E 2009 Mazda MX-5 Copper Red
NASA-X E 1999 Mazda Miata Blue
NASA-X E 2001 Toyota Celica GT black
NASA-X E 1994 BMW 325i Red
NASA-X E 2007 Ford Mustang White

NASA-X F 1995 Honda Accord white
NASA-X F 2001 Toyota Celica GT Silver
NASA-X F 1994 toyota corolla red
NASA-X F 1988 VW Jetta White
NASA-X F 1992 Honda Civic 1.5L non-vtec Dark Grey
NASA-X F 2003 Mazda Protege Blue
NASA-X F 1990 honda accord champagne
NASA-X F 2002 Lexus IS300 Silver
NASA-X F 1991 Mazda Miata Red


NOTE: The course map (attached at the bottom) is a VERY rough layout of the course. It is not to scale and it is subject to change so don't take it litterally. There's a couple variables such as how much cable I have for the timing lights which could alter the start and finish and the *features* used to keep speeds in check.

This is a description of the course and some of the thought process behind it:
1. Start immediately into an offset slalom (to reduce drag race advantage starts and reduce entry speed into the 1st offset of the road course)

2. Use the entire road course chicane feature

3. After the chicane, force an offset entry into a long and very fast slalom (i.e. the number of cones is TBD)

4. Use the road course sweeper to keep the speeds *exciting* (don't worry, there's lots of run off room just in case)

5. Leave the corner exit of the sweeper open but have a feature near the exit forcing you to go slower than normal (or else you'll have a crappy line, or clobber a bunch of cones)

6. Next up is a a decent sized straight and is un-altered for two primary reasons. The first is because this is the one section on this course that has solid objects and IMO it's safer to just leave this as a straight vs adding more "features" and increasing the chances of a spin/contact. The other reason is NASA-X classing has a much heavier bias towards cars with good power to weight ratios so this should actually be a bit of an equalizer between SCCA and NASA-X classing.

7. Next up are a couple high speed offsets, followed by a slow section which will use the actual road course.

8. The next section is normally a high speed area so it will be slowed down with a couple offset gates and likely a Chicago box before hitting another medium length straight.

9. The last section will use the road course unaltered and I'll have it finish on a small paved section off to the right from the normal road course.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
Attached Image
 


--------------------
Tage Evanson
"Casper - The Friendly Civic"
Help support me in the fight against "low performance driving" @ www.nasaaz.com
Tage@nasaaz.com
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BWeikert
post Sep 21 2009, 06:30 PM
Post #2





Group: Admin
Posts: 3821
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Member No.: 42



Registered - NXE class by 1 stupid point. smile.gif


--------------------
Brian Weikert
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berny2435
post Sep 21 2009, 07:28 PM
Post #3





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 2143
Joined: 15-September 08
From: Tempe
Member No.: 1369



classing
http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules.html

08 Civic Si NXE
whopping +2 for drop springs and another big +2 for RSB!

I like that spherical bearings are just point adders and don't bump you out of a class. Seems logical lol!
Ryan, one who has LCA $200 spherical bearings sitting in the garage awaiting installation once he decides his car no longer needs to be classified in STX.


--------------------
Ryan B. - 98' M3 - STU(underprep)- slowly coming together
Da past - 06' S2000 STR---08' Civic Si STX---06' 350Z track stock---95' K20 6spd Civic SMF - 95' MR2 turbo - 92.5' Talon AWD
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SMeyers
post Sep 21 2009, 07:35 PM
Post #4





Group: Steering Comm., voting member
Posts: 8867
Joined: 6-December 02
From: Glendale AZ
Member No.: 4



QUOTE (BWeikert @ Sep 21 2009, 07:30 PM) *
Registered - NXE class by 1 stupid point. smile.gif

Um, you were kidding, right? A Stock '95 M3 is NXD*.............. blink.gif

Or are there some newer rules than I have? unsure.gif

NASA Classing - BMW M3 (E36)('95-'99) NXD* 3175

Just wondering........... wink.gif smile.gif

Entered and looking forward to this........ cool.gif


--------------------
Scott Meyers
2006 Mazda3S "STS" .......(Really just a Miata with four doors and a trunk......)
Education is important. Race Cars are importanter
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berny2435
post Sep 21 2009, 07:36 PM
Post #5





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 2143
Joined: 15-September 08
From: Tempe
Member No.: 1369



QUOTE (BWeikert @ Sep 21 2009, 05:30 PM) *
Registered - NXE class by 1 stupid point. smile.gif


FYI Your base class is NXD so I'm not sure how you move down a class? Wouldn't you move up to NXC if you have modifications, which you do?


--------------------
Ryan B. - 98' M3 - STU(underprep)- slowly coming together
Da past - 06' S2000 STR---08' Civic Si STX---06' 350Z track stock---95' K20 6spd Civic SMF - 95' MR2 turbo - 92.5' Talon AWD
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BWeikert
post Sep 21 2009, 08:44 PM
Post #6





Group: Admin
Posts: 3821
Joined: 14-January 03
From: Phoenix, AZ
Member No.: 42



QUOTE (berny2435 @ Sep 21 2009, 08:36 PM) *
QUOTE (BWeikert @ Sep 21 2009, 05:30 PM) *
Registered - NXE class by 1 stupid point. smile.gif


FYI Your base class is NXD so I'm not sure how you move down a class? Wouldn't you move up to NXC if you have modifications, which you do?


I guess I didn't look at the class progression hard enough. I assumed you moved towards "Z". Heh. Guess that means I'm in NXC, as I have a 1 class shift.

Either that, or I took a 25 point deduction for my bad driving. smile.gif


--------------------
Brian Weikert
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hatrick6
post Sep 21 2009, 08:51 PM
Post #7





Group: Steering Comm., voting member
Posts: 3059
Joined: 11-August 06
From: North Phoenix, AZ
Member No.: 710



QUOTE (BWeikert @ Sep 21 2009, 09:44 PM) *
QUOTE (berny2435 @ Sep 21 2009, 08:36 PM) *
QUOTE (BWeikert @ Sep 21 2009, 05:30 PM) *
Registered - NXE class by 1 stupid point. smile.gif


FYI Your base class is NXD so I'm not sure how you move down a class? Wouldn't you move up to NXC if you have modifications, which you do?


I guess I didn't look at the class progression hard enough. I assumed you moved towards "Z". Heh. Guess that means I'm in NXC, as I have a 1 class shift.

Either that, or I took a 25 point deduction for my bad driving. smile.gif


Hmm, I wasssss going to go to flag for the weekend, but maybe not now...

Hey Tage, if I can't make this one, any idea when the next one will be?


--------------------
"Maybe I should just buy a 240 and become a mad tyte drifter." - Hitler
Josh Johnston
AZ Region Director
1997 Honda Civic HX - STC
1995 Nissan 240sx SE - STC
2004 Mini Cooper - STF
2006 Mini Cooper JCW - DS
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2bav8
post Sep 21 2009, 09:49 PM
Post #8





Group: AZ Region Member
Posts: 1509
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From: Mesa, AZ
Member No.: 410



Looks like fun


--------------------
Matt Soeffner
1966 Mustang - CP
2014 Mustang - CAM
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Buzz65
post Sep 21 2009, 10:09 PM
Post #9





Group: AZ Region Member
Posts: 597
Joined: 31-March 09
From: Mesa, Arizona
Member No.: 2093



Wow, the Cobalt is in with a pretty tough crowd!

Acura NSX 3.0L ('91-'96) NXC** 3047
Acura NSX NXC** 3153
Audi A8 6.0L (AWD)('05-'07) NXC 4729
Audi S4 ('03-'07)(AWD) NXC 3869
BMW 135i Coupe ('08) NXC* 3370
BMW M Coupe (315 hp) NXC** 3141
BMW M Roadster (315 hp) NXC** 3141
BMW M3 (E46)('01-'06) NXC** 3415
BMW M5 E39 ('00-'03) NXC** 3792
Cadillac CTS-V ('04-'07) NXC** 3847
Cadillac STS-V ('06-'07) NXC* 4233
Chevrolet Cobalt SS (turbo)('08) NXC* 2975
Chevrolet Corvette '63-'82 (>330,<425 hp) NXC* 3200
Chevrolet Corvette C4 ('92-'96) (LT1) NXC* 3203
Chevrolet Corvette C4 (LT4 option) (330 hp) NXC** 3350
Chevrolet Corvette GS NXC** 3350
Chrysler Crossfire SRT6 ('05-'06) NXC** 3240
Chrysler 300C SRT8 ('05-'07) NXC 4160
DeTomaso Pantera NXC* 3300
Dodge Charger SRT8 ('06-'07) NXC 4160
Dodge Magnum SRT8 NXC 4260
Dodge Stealth Turbo ('94-'96)(AWD) NXC 3671
Ferrari 328 NXC** 2803
Ferrari 348 (<305 hp) NXC* 3233
Ford Mustang Cobra ('96-'98) NXC 3393
Ford Mustang Cobra ('99 & '01) NXC* 3285
Ford Mustang Cobra R ('95) NXC* 3325
Ford Mustang GT ('07-'08) NXC 3356
Ford Mustang Mach 1 NXC 3420
Honda Civic Type R ('07) (JDM)(225 hp) NXC 2792
Honda S2000 (2.2L)('04-'08) NXC 2850
Honda S2000 CR (2.2L)('08) NXC** 2813
Jaguar S-Type R 4.2L S/C ('05-'07) NXC 4075
Jaguar XJ8 S/C ('00-'07) NXC 4001
Jaguar XJR ('98-'07) NXC 3958
Jaguar XKR-SC ('00-'06) NXC* 3865
Jaguar XKR-SC ('07) NXC** 3781
Lotus Elise ('05-'07) NXC** 1975
Mazda RX-7 TT NXC** 2826
Mercedes C32 AMG ('02-'04) NXC* 3540
Mercedes C55 AMG ('05-'06) NXC** 3540
Mercedes CLK55 AMG ('04-'06) NXC 3960
Mercedes CLK550 ('07) NXC* 3965
Mercedes E55 AMG ('99-'02) NXC* 3768
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII ('03-'05)(AWD) NXC** 3263
Nissan 350Z (287hp)('03-'05)(enth. ok) NXC 3188
Nissan 350Z (300hp)('06)(enth. ok) NXC 3339
Nissan 350Z (306hp)('07-'08)(enth. ok) NXC* 3320
Nissan 350Z Track ('05-'06),35ann, GT NXC* 3370
Nissan 350Z Track Model ('03-'04) NXC* 3225
Pontiac Firebird Firehawk NXC 3481
Pontiac GTO ('05-'06) NXC* 3725
Pontiac Solstice GXP (turbo)('07-'08) NXC 2988
Porsche 964 RS NXC** 2706
Porsche 964 RS America NXC* 2820
Porsche 965 3.3L (Turbo II--'90-'92) NXC** 3234
Porsche 993 C2 ('94-'95) NXC* 3064
Porsche 993 C2 ('96-'99) NXC** 3064
Porsche 993 C2S NXC** 3064
Porsche 993 C4 (AWD) NXC** 3175
Porsche 911 Turbo 3.0L ('74-'77) NXC** 2508
Porsche 911 Turbo 3.3L ('77-'89) NXC** 2937
Porsche Boxster S ('05-'06) NXC* 2965
Porsche Boxster S ('03-'04) NXC 2911
Porsche Boxster S ('07) NXC** 2965
Porsche Cayenne Turbo ('08)(AWD) NXC 5191
Saturn Subaru WRX 2.5L ('09)(AWD) NXC* 3175Sky Redline ('07-'08) NXC 2990
Toyota Supra TT NXC** 3450


--------------------
John Leonhardt
2009 Cobalt SS Sedan on "oldschool" Hankook S2's (New Dunlops soon?)
DS/NV1 Fall 2009 Champ.... Then off to ST1 to be humbled.
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berny2435
post Sep 21 2009, 11:22 PM
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Group: Autocrosser
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Boosted 260hp 2975lbs. pretty good hp/weight and room to grow easy. Looks like it's classed more towards road racing. AND they gave the car a 7pt starting allowance for class C too sheesh! still have 13pt left. looks like what STU would be for SCCA minus r comps.. . D looks like STX minus R comps as well. I agree though, for a FWD turbo, that's a pretty stiff classing for AutoX.

My car with base class E +7
+3 ECU
+1 intake
+2 Header
+2 exhaust
+1 if cat is gone
+5 for sub $2400 coilovers
+2 rear swaybar
+16 pts + 7base = 23pts with 16 left to get to C class!! Civic Si is clased well biggrin.gif I could do very well with all those mods not even including weight reduction! would probably be forced to go r comps to really be competitive in D though. I wont, I just wont take a hit of the black crack again! laugh.gif


--------------------
Ryan B. - 98' M3 - STU(underprep)- slowly coming together
Da past - 06' S2000 STR---08' Civic Si STX---06' 350Z track stock---95' K20 6spd Civic SMF - 95' MR2 turbo - 92.5' Talon AWD
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Dave Munsey
post Sep 22 2009, 12:27 AM
Post #11





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I'll probably sign up for it. Looks like NXC plus 11 points for me.


--------------------
DAVE MUNSEY
2002 Boxster S
A Street Prepared
( ASP?? Your kidding me aren't you? Oh, I forgot, it's a Porsche. )
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Tage Evanson
post Sep 22 2009, 10:35 PM
Post #12





Group: Autocrosser
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Future NASA-X events is dependent on popularity of this event and general feedback during and after the event. Obviously the critical piece is having a suitable place to autox which I believe the concensous is the FIR Skidpad is not. I think an autox on road courses is cool and all but I don't think I could do it on a monthly basis (probably just a few times per year).

RE: NASA classing - Yes it is very much so skewed towards road racing but it's actually pretty dang good for the vast majority of cars. Another problem is there is such a small sampling of events for anyone with lots of raw data and experience to back up why changes are needed. *If* Arizona embraced the NASA-X system and put on enough events, I bet we could sway the national rules and fix some of the misclassing and flaws that don't translate from road racing to autox. On the flip side, for every NASA rule flaw everyone finds, I bet I can find an equal if not great number of flaws with SCCA. ohmy.gif Not bashing, just being honest. I like both systems, they're just have very different approaches. SCCA is great if you want to build a "Spec car", NASA is great if you want to have some creativity (and then have everyone accuse you of cheating because you become an overdog because actually built a car to the max the rules would allow). laugh.gif


--------------------
Tage Evanson
"Casper - The Friendly Civic"
Help support me in the fight against "low performance driving" @ www.nasaaz.com
Tage@nasaaz.com
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2bav8
post Sep 22 2009, 10:46 PM
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The NASA rules for building a "fast" Miata seem rather tempting...


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Matt Soeffner
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2014 Mustang - CAM
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Kevin G
post Sep 22 2009, 11:39 PM
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I'm registered. Is anybody else in NXB?
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Tage Evanson
post Sep 23 2009, 12:00 AM
Post #15





Group: Autocrosser
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Joined: 14-January 03
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QUOTE (Kevin Gleaton @ Sep 22 2009, 11:39 PM) *
I'm registered. Is anybody else in NXB?


I am! LOL!


--------------------
Tage Evanson
"Casper - The Friendly Civic"
Help support me in the fight against "low performance driving" @ www.nasaaz.com
Tage@nasaaz.com
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Buzz65
post Sep 23 2009, 12:05 AM
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Are the courses as tight and twisty as the SCCA's or do they allow higher speeds?


--------------------
John Leonhardt
2009 Cobalt SS Sedan on "oldschool" Hankook S2's (New Dunlops soon?)
DS/NV1 Fall 2009 Champ.... Then off to ST1 to be humbled.
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Tage Evanson
post Sep 23 2009, 12:11 AM
Post #17





Group: Autocrosser
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QUOTE (Buzz65 @ Sep 23 2009, 12:05 AM) *
Are the courses as tight and twisty as the SCCA's or do they allow higher speeds?


Tight and twisty is essentially the definition of an autox! However, this course should be faster than most SCCA autoxes with the exception of their events they put on FIR West.

If you're looking for higher speed events, try a NASA HPDE event! I regularly see *cornering* speeds flat out in 5th gear at well over 100MPH at PIR. At Miller Motorsports park I was hitting over 140MPH in 6th gear down their main straight! These are done in a Honda Civic. A highly modified Civic, but still just a "Civic"...


--------------------
Tage Evanson
"Casper - The Friendly Civic"
Help support me in the fight against "low performance driving" @ www.nasaaz.com
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Spuds
post Sep 23 2009, 08:52 AM
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QUOTE (berny2435 @ Sep 21 2009, 11:22 PM) *
Boosted 260hp 2975lbs. pretty good hp/weight and room to grow easy. Looks like it's classed more towards road racing. AND they gave the car a 7pt starting allowance for class C too sheesh! :

In NASA, they have boost modifications from computer/controller changes as a no-points option, so anything with a turbo is going to get a higher/stiffer base classing. So that 260hp is very conservative for where a "no-points" Cobalt sits horsepower-wise. And don't forget the extra 5 points that you get just for being forced induction. wink.gif


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Sandy (Doug) McSanderson (Rowse)
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00Hawk95
post Sep 23 2009, 09:01 AM
Post #19





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Registered. NXA I guess (NXD + 78!) blink.gif ohmy.gif


--------------------
- Chris Black
1998 Pontiac Trans Am
2011 Camaro RS
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berny2435
post Sep 23 2009, 09:25 AM
Post #20





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QUOTE (Spuds @ Sep 23 2009, 08:52 AM) *
QUOTE (berny2435 @ Sep 21 2009, 11:22 PM) *
Boosted 260hp 2975lbs. pretty good hp/weight and room to grow easy. Looks like it's classed more towards road racing. AND they gave the car a 7pt starting allowance for class C too sheesh! :

In NASA, they have boost modifications as a no-points option, so anything with a turbo is going to get a higher/stiffer base classing. So that 260hp is very conservative for where a "no-points" Cobalt sits horsepower-wise.


actually... .

12) Aftermarket computer system (any non-OEM “stand-alone” or “piggyback”):
+3 naturally aspirated, +10 forced induction
13) Modification of the OEM air intake/box, air filter location, air piping to the turbo/
supercharger/intercooler/throttle body/carburetor, or hood/fascia/fender air inlet(s) +1
(air filter upgrade alone—0 pts.)
14) Replacement pulley for OEM supercharger +4
15) Aftermarket boost controller or modification/alteration of OEM vacuum lines that serve to
function as a boost controller +4
16) Aftermarket or modified wastegate actuator, wastegate, or vacuum line(s) that
serve to control the wastegate actuator function or increase peak boost +3
17) Add aftermarket intercooler +7
18) Non-OEM or modified intercooler +4


Not very clear on "Reflash" mods though but that might be considered a "piggyback" somewhere else in the rule book.

looks like for most boosted cars, if you add piggyback + exhaust + boost mod, you are likely going to get bumped to the next class.


--------------------
Ryan B. - 98' M3 - STU(underprep)- slowly coming together
Da past - 06' S2000 STR---08' Civic Si STX---06' 350Z track stock---95' K20 6spd Civic SMF - 95' MR2 turbo - 92.5' Talon AWD
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