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> STI vs WRX ... save $10,000
Sven
post Oct 26 2009, 03:28 PM
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Apparently, the Subaru WRX is faster 0-60 than a Subaru STI. Seeing as the speed limit is not much more and we have those silly speed cameras and it's rare for an autocross course to have speeds much over that, wouldn't it be smart as hell to save $10,000 and buy a WRX instead? Am I missing something fundamentally simple?

-Steve
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Ben Clement
post Oct 26 2009, 03:32 PM
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QUOTE (Sven @ Oct 26 2009, 03:28 PM) *
Am I missing something fundamentally simple?

Yes, a car is more than its 0-60 time. rolleyes.gif
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Travis
post Oct 26 2009, 03:39 PM
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+1 to Ben's comments

Research why...

Hint: There's one more shift to 60 in the STi


--------------------
Travis Berry

2005 Subaru Impreza STi - STU - Sold to a Pennsylvanian
2002 S2000 - AS - Sold for a back seat
1995 Miata R - ES - Sold to Lahey
1997 30th Anniv. Z28 - ESP - Sold to a drag racer
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2bav8
post Oct 26 2009, 03:40 PM
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QUOTE
Yes, a car is more than its 0-60 time

and that is why my Miata is so much quicker than my Mustang despite having 300 less HP ph34r.gif


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Matt Soeffner
1966 Mustang - CP
2014 Mustang - CAM
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berny2435
post Oct 26 2009, 03:40 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Clement @ Oct 26 2009, 02:32 PM) *
QUOTE (Sven @ Oct 26 2009, 03:28 PM) *
Am I missing something fundamentally simple?

Yes, a car is more than its 0-60 time. rolleyes.gif


where is that flamming smiley face when you need one!

this is kind of like saying a 911 Carrera S = 911 GT3, get my drift Sven?


--------------------
Ryan B. - 98' M3 - STU(underprep)- slowly coming together
Da past - 06' S2000 STR---08' Civic Si STX---06' 350Z track stock---95' K20 6spd Civic SMF - 95' MR2 turbo - 92.5' Talon AWD
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gregr01
post Oct 26 2009, 07:20 PM
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If you're talking strictly 08MY than the 2008 WRX is a much better value versus the 2008 STI. The STI still has a better drivetrain (transmission and differentials plus engine internals), suspension and brakes, but Subaru created a vehicle too close to the STI that no doubt cannibalized its sales.

For '09 and '10 the STI is improved, but so too is the WRX. There's still not enough differentiation between the models to make the STI an easy choice if you're stretched for payments.

For the average consumer 0-60 is a large part of the equation, though so too is the bling. Subaru (and Mitsubishi) need to make the STI (and Evo) be in the 350hp range in order to justify the mid-$30,000 asking price they're putting on their range-topping models--300ish hp just doesn't cut it after 7 years on the market.


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G r e g__R u b e n s t e i n
2004 Subaru WRX STi
Street Modified somethingoranother

I Like Ike!



winner winner chicken dinner!
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Sven
post Oct 26 2009, 09:10 PM
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QUOTE (gregr01 @ Oct 26 2009, 07:20 PM) *
If you're talking strictly 08MY than the 2008 WRX is a much better value versus the 2008 STI. The STI still has a better drivetrain (transmission and differentials plus engine internals), suspension and brakes, but Subaru created a vehicle too close to the STI that no doubt cannibalized its sales.

For '09 and '10 the STI is improved, but so too is the WRX. There's still not enough differentiation between the models to make the STI an easy choice if you're stretched for payments.

For the average consumer 0-60 is a large part of the equation, though so too is the bling. Subaru (and Mitsubishi) need to make the STI (and Evo) be in the 350hp range in order to justify the mid-$30,000 asking price they're putting on their range-topping models--300ish hp just doesn't cut it after 7 years on the market.


Thanks for an informative answer as opposed to the funny guys. I get that the STI has better internals, more horses, a different gearbox and differentials and it's certainly more racer looking ... that and it's $10k more. What I don't get is the black stripe thing. smile.gif

Anyway, what I am wondering is if saving $10k on the base car and spending some of it wisely elsewhere would result in a better autocross car. Both would definitely need tires and a good setup. I've driven both 2010 models and both are screamers, but the STI (bells and whistles aside) just doesn't strike me as handling that much better or being that much better overall. I was looking for the opinions of others.

I also drove an 08 WRX and the 2010 WRX is night and day better although the shifting is still pretty rancid.

-Steve
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fzust
post Oct 26 2009, 09:13 PM
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OK, I can't resist. If you want it to handle better, buy an EVO.... smile.gif Seriously, though that is what Brad is doing with the 2006 WRX 2.5. Building a killer ESP car.... Its all trade offs.


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Indentured Mechanic
fzust
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Buzz65
post Oct 26 2009, 09:16 PM
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QUOTE (Sven @ Oct 26 2009, 09:10 PM) *
What I don't get is the black stripe thing. smile.gif
-Steve


LOL... Try holding down your mouse button and drag over it... SURPRISE!


--------------------
John Leonhardt
2009 Cobalt SS Sedan on "oldschool" Hankook S2's (New Dunlops soon?)
DS/NV1 Fall 2009 Champ.... Then off to ST1 to be humbled.
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wile e cote
post Oct 26 2009, 10:11 PM
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Smart comments aside ... if you're thinking either WRX or STI then plan on spending another $5K easily above the price of the car for all of the aftermarket work needed to make it close to being competitive. In stock form, both cars handle like pigs compared to Evo and you'll be disappointed. You can pick these things up used pretty cheap and there are a ton of them on the market these days.


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Kevin Cote
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berny2435
post Oct 26 2009, 10:15 PM
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QUOTE (Sven @ Oct 26 2009, 08:10 PM) *
Anyway, what I am wondering is if saving $10k on the base car and spending some of it wisely elsewhere would result in a better autocross car. Both would definitely need tires and a good setup. I've driven both 2010 models and both are screamers, but the STI (bells and whistles aside) just doesn't strike me as handling that much better or being that much better overall. I was looking for the opinions of others.


For a certain set of courses, yeah, maybe the WRX will be better than the STi with 10K spent on the same parts. Mod for mod though, I can't see an EVO or a STi loosing to the same driver in a WRX for 70% of AutoX courses and 100% of Road courses.

A 2.5 WRX does sound like a fun car to dump your extra money in, if you have it laying around vs spending it to get a STi or EVO. $150/mo less car payment buys a lot of AutoX seat time and tires! And if you are a guy that tinkers, you'd likely upgrade most of the same parts anyways (as long as your HP goals aren't too lofty for a stock turbo)

Here's a hint for you though. If you can find one, 06 EVO RS ;-)


--------------------
Ryan B. - 98' M3 - STU(underprep)- slowly coming together
Da past - 06' S2000 STR---08' Civic Si STX---06' 350Z track stock---95' K20 6spd Civic SMF - 95' MR2 turbo - 92.5' Talon AWD
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Brock
post Oct 26 2009, 10:57 PM
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QUOTE (fzust @ Oct 26 2009, 10:13 PM) *
OK, I can't resist. If you want it to handle better, buy an EVO.... smile.gif Seriously, though that is what Brad is doing with the 2006 WRX 2.5. Building a killer ESP car.... Its all trade offs.


I have to agree... but the sound!
You know a Subaru (or at least the turbocharged ones) when you hear it. biggrin.gif

Here's something I've been wondering. The newer WRXs have a 2.5L just like the STis. Does anyone know what makes the extra power? Bigger turbo? ECU? Camshafts?


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Brock Palmer
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Will
post Oct 27 2009, 07:16 AM
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The most obvious differences are STI has a bigger turbo, bigger brakes and a stronger 6MT transmission that allow changes of front vs rear output torque distribution. For $10k more, these are definitely worth the money. One draw back is that STI is a little heavier than the WRX (at least up to the 07 model... not sure about 08+) and the 6MT requires more shifting to stay in the proper power range.

I do see some people in WRXs as competitive as the ones in STIs. However, it takes a lot of skills and experience to reach to that level. If you get a WRX, I would suggest to stay in stock class to improve the driving skills and to have fun. (And yes, I should have done this).

If you are going to mod your car, you need to be aware that WRX, STI and EVO are in the same STU class. It sucks when they have 100 hp more than you and smoke you everytime going straight. If you get a 07 or older wagon, the suspension is different from the sedan chassis. This sometimes limits the aftermarket mods available out there.


--------------------
./W i l l_C h u n/.


Still Learning How to Drive
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Travis
post Oct 27 2009, 08:36 AM
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If you're not locked into a brand new car, the an 05 or 06 STi with good mileage can be had for around or under $20k....cheaper than both the new STI and new WRX.


[shameless plug] My 2005 will be for sale soon and suspension-wise its pretty much set-up... just need the legal STU power mods (few) and a good driver to be really competitive. Plus its much better looking than the new ones! ph34r.gif tongue.gif biggrin.gif [/shameless plug]


--------------------
Travis Berry

2005 Subaru Impreza STi - STU - Sold to a Pennsylvanian
2002 S2000 - AS - Sold for a back seat
1995 Miata R - ES - Sold to Lahey
1997 30th Anniv. Z28 - ESP - Sold to a drag racer
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Brock
post Oct 27 2009, 10:17 AM
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QUOTE (Will @ Oct 27 2009, 08:16 AM) *
The most obvious differences are STI has a bigger turbo, bigger brakes and a stronger 6MT transmission that allow changes of front vs rear output torque distribution.


Don't the new WRXs have the VCCD too?
I think I'd have too much fun playing with that even though leaving it alone would probably be fastest.


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Brock Palmer
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Travis
post Oct 27 2009, 10:54 AM
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DCCD (Driver Controlled Center Diff)... it sounds more fun than it actually is. Also, its not actually moving power forward or aft... I played with it some at first and it really is faster to just leave it in Auto. It's smarter and faster than I am.

Not sure whether or not the new WRX's have it...


--------------------
Travis Berry

2005 Subaru Impreza STi - STU - Sold to a Pennsylvanian
2002 S2000 - AS - Sold for a back seat
1995 Miata R - ES - Sold to Lahey
1997 30th Anniv. Z28 - ESP - Sold to a drag racer
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Will
post Oct 27 2009, 12:05 PM
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It doesn't move power forward and aft, but it alters the torque distribution by controlling how much slip allowed between the front and the rear wheels.

DCCD Explaination

No, all WRXs don't have DCCD, but JDM 5MT DCCD is available (very expensive).

The selling point to me though isn't the DCCD. It is the fact that the STI 6MT is a stronger and more durable gearbox than WRX 5MT.


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./W i l l_C h u n/.


Still Learning How to Drive
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08scooby
post Oct 27 2009, 04:14 PM
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I have a 08 wrx, so i speak from experiance. save the money buy the sti. i really wish i would have. The tranny in the 08 wrx is way stronger then the 07 and older wrx, but it is still miles behind the 6 speed in the sti. the sti has the older style turbo and intercooler, where as the wrx (all 08 and up) has the legacy gt style intank manifold and intercooler. the 08 wrx has a mitsu td04 turbo (junk) the 07 and older legacy gt has a IHI vf-40. the 08 up legacy gt have the IHI vf-46. the 08 and up sti have the IHI vf-48 (great turbo, capable of upwards of 350 whp). the 09 and up wrx have a IHI vf-52 (good turbo). the 09 and up wrx also have stiffer springs and better valved shocks over the 08 wrx as well.
so long story short, it is up to you. you have to pay for it. If you are going to get the wrx, get the 09 and up. As a 08 wrx owner, i would recomend getting the sti. more_cowbell.gif


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chris wadding
2008 subaru wrx
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Will
post Oct 27 2009, 04:24 PM
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I don't mean to hurt your feeling... but I have read (Motortrend or something...) that "if you own a 08 wrx, trade it in now for an 09 and do it quick."


QUOTE (08scooby @ Oct 27 2009, 04:14 PM) *
I have a 08 wrx, so i speak from experiance. save the money buy the sti. i really wish i would have. The tranny in the 08 wrx is way stronger then the 07 and older wrx, but it is still miles behind the 6 speed in the sti. the sti has the older style turbo and intercooler, where as the wrx (all 08 and up) has the legacy gt style intank manifold and intercooler. the 08 wrx has a mitsu td04 turbo (junk) the 07 and older legacy gt has a IHI vf-40. the 08 up legacy gt have the IHI vf-46. the 08 and up sti have the IHI vf-48 (great turbo, capable of upwards of 350 whp). the 09 and up wrx have a IHI vf-52 (good turbo). the 09 and up wrx also have stiffer springs and better valved shocks over the 08 wrx as well.
so long story short, it is up to you. you have to pay for it. If you are going to get the wrx, get the 09 and up. As a 08 wrx owner, i would recomend getting the sti. more_cowbell.gif


--------------------
./W i l l_C h u n/.


Still Learning How to Drive
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phoenixR34
post Oct 29 2009, 02:23 PM
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Using that rationale, you should just buy a used Impreza 2.5RS and save another $10,000. It'll reach 60mph just like the WRX will.


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Brady Dohrmann
BMW M3s - STU - About once a year.
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