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> Electric Kart Classification
dhymers
post Jan 21 2012, 07:14 PM
Post #1





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 56
Joined: 6-July 07
From: Tucson AZ
Member No.: 1127



At some point this year I'd like to autocross this guy:



It's a little different now, its 36v and actually has a proper potentionmeter plunger hooked up to the gas
pedal. I've timed it at a little over 30mph top and acceleration isn't bad. I have a feeling it's not as fast or as quick
off the line as a shifter kart though, but I'd still like to see what it could do smile.gif
(it will have a chain guard !!)

I have no idea where it fits in relation to the SCCA Kart rules. It's an oval kart chassis, the batteries are >Sealed< lead acid
and are secured with 1/4-20 hardware to the chassis. (Lugs will also have boots on)

I'm trying to think of every safety and class issue I can. Any ideas ?
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SMeyers
post Jan 21 2012, 09:52 PM
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QUOTE (dhymers @ Jan 21 2012, 08:14 PM) *
I have no idea where it fits in relation to the SCCA Kart rules. It's an oval kart chassis, the batteries are >Sealed< lead acid
and are secured with 1/4-20 hardware to the chassis. (Lugs will also have boots on)

Read and re-read pages 147-152 of the 2011 SCCA Rule Book. The 2012 is not out yet.

I did so quickly and saw nothing about Electric Karts.

Good Luck.



--------------------
Scott Meyers
2006 Mazda3S "STS" .......(Really just a Miata with four doors and a trunk......)
Education is important. Race Cars are importanter
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dhymers
post Jan 22 2012, 07:47 AM
Post #3





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 56
Joined: 6-July 07
From: Tucson AZ
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Thanks Scott,

Page 148 states it must have bodywork; driver fairing, nose cone and side pods that shouldn't be too much of a problem. The only other problem I can see is requiring 5/16 hardware securing all non-structural weights and no more than 5lbs of weight per bolt that would be 5 bolts as apposed to the 2 that now hold each battery into an angle iron frame. [With 2 more securing it to the chassis all with nylon lock nuts]

Have to find places to add bolts.
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BWeikert
post Jan 22 2012, 08:49 AM
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QUOTE (dhymers @ Jan 22 2012, 08:47 AM) *
Thanks Scott,

Page 148 states it must have bodywork; driver fairing, nose cone and side pods that shouldn't be too much of a problem. The only other problem I can see is requiring 5/16 hardware securing all non-structural weights and no more than 5lbs of weight per bolt that would be 5 bolts as apposed to the 2 that now hold each battery into an angle iron frame. [With 2 more securing it to the chassis all with nylon lock nuts]

Have to find places to add bolts.


Non-structural weights is referring to ballast weights.

Electric Karts are not classified by the SCCA, therefore can run only if your local group (I'm not sure if you want to run this at Phoenix or Tucson) approves the vehicle, and would be classified however your local group decides, and must meet minimum safety requirements (probably based on the Kart safety requirements in the rules). Also, if it is allowed to run, the local group must make sure that the course meets the safety requirements of Karts, and the insurance form would need to be submitted with the 'Karts' box checked.

So basically your local group could allow you to run as F125, or possibly AM (1.00 PAX, as the vehicle is not classified by the SCCA), but both your vehicle and the event/course must meet Kart safety rules. I believe that Tucson regularly runs Karts, so would meet all of the event/course requirements, whereas Phoenix, due to the smaller lot, does not normally submit for Kart approval, and you would need to make arrangements in advance. If your goal is Tucson, I'd suggest contacting Rob Rockefeller and beginning a direct discussion with the Tucson leadership about whether this would be allowed, and what you need to do in order to make it acceptable to run there.


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BWeikert
post Jan 31 2012, 07:37 PM
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QUOTE (dhymers @ Jan 21 2012, 08:14 PM) *
At some point this year I'd like to autocross this guy:


The word from the National office is that it would take a lot of work to make this legal.

It would require body-work, no vehicles are allowed to run without bodywork. It would require a chain guard.

More importantly, the National office would not sanction (i.e. insure) the kart without some sort of proof that it isn't faster than a shifter kart, and I have no idea how you would go about proving that.

So unfortunately, you can not currently autocross this at an SCCA event.


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dhymers
post Feb 18 2012, 07:13 AM
Post #6





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 56
Joined: 6-July 07
From: Tucson AZ
Member No.: 1127



Doh' I just registered. dry.gif

I've made quite a few mods, it does have some basic bodywork now and a chain guard.
They're not shown in these photos, but it now also has battery boot covers over all
terminals on the batteries and motor, in addition to the plastic covers on the batteries.
I also added some additional bolts to battery frames/sidepods, and jam nuts to the
motor mount bolts.

I'm not sure how to prove it's speed either, unless someone has a radar gun. I simply
timed between two points (150ft run up to a 50ft span) on 3 runs and worked out an
average of 30mph.

Would it be a good idea for me to contact someone at national office ?

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dhymers
post Feb 18 2012, 09:31 AM
Post #7





Group: Autocrosser
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From: Tucson AZ
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The other route of estimating speed, or possibly classifying the kart might be hp?

Peak power in this setup is 300amps x 36v =10.8kw which (please correct if I'm wrong)
10.8kw x 1.34 =14.47hp

Having said that, there are many factors limiting the power; wire resistance, battery resitance, motor
efficiency, all of which probably suck 30% right out. So at the wheels 9-10hp maybe, and I will bet this
Kart is heavier because of the batteries.

Compred to a 125cc at almost 25hp (?)
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Wicked991
post Feb 18 2012, 10:55 AM
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QUOTE (dhymers @ Feb 18 2012, 09:31 AM) *
The other route of estimating speed, or possibly classifying the kart might be hp?

Peak power in this setup is 300amps x 36v =10.8kw which (please correct if I'm wrong)
10.8kw x 1.34 =14.47hp

Having said that, there are many factors limiting the power; wire resistance, battery resitance, motor
efficiency, all of which probably suck 30% right out. So at the wheels 9-10hp maybe, and I will bet this
Kart is heavier because of the batteries.

Compred to a 125cc at almost 25hp (?)



When we contacted the National Office they stated there is no classification for electric Karts, you might wish to start with them but until the Kart can be classified it cannot run at the Phoenix SCCA auto-x events, sorry.

Kim
Safety Steward


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Kim Kemper
Dark Side Racing
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BWeikert
post Feb 18 2012, 10:58 AM
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QUOTE (Wicked997 @ Feb 18 2012, 11:55 AM) *
When we contacted the National Office they stated there is no classification for electric Karts, you might wish to start with them but until the Kart can be classified it cannot run at the Phoenix SCCA auto-x events, sorry.

Kim
Safety Steward


Thanks for responding Kim.

Can you provide the best way for him to contact the National office for this particular area, since you've already heard from them on this?


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Wicked991
post Feb 18 2012, 02:58 PM
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Contact at national office you may wish to call is Brian Harmer
Rally/Solo Competition Manager
1-800-770-2055


--------------------
Kim Kemper
Dark Side Racing
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dhymers
post Feb 18 2012, 03:43 PM
Post #11





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 56
Joined: 6-July 07
From: Tucson AZ
Member No.: 1127



Thanks Kim,

I'll give him a call on Monday. I'd be running at the Tucson/marana event.
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dhymers
post Feb 22 2012, 09:45 AM
Post #12





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 56
Joined: 6-July 07
From: Tucson AZ
Member No.: 1127



I spoke with the assistant manger of Tech Services, Ryan Miles who was forwarded my voicemail to
Brian. He outlined that the region can require national to make a decision on classing
And to determine if the kart meets the minimum f125 reqs. To run KM.
It won't, it doesn't have front brakes.

Considering f125 karts will hit 60mph that's an obvious req.

I thiknk I have to have it inspected by a regional official, and a decision made at that level
And contact the Solo Board in conjunctionn - http://www.sebscca.com/
(Which I will do asap, phone doesn't load the form)
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SMeyers
post Feb 22 2012, 10:35 AM
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From: Glendale AZ
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QUOTE (dhymers @ Feb 22 2012, 10:45 AM) *
I think I have to have it inspected by a regional official, and a decision made at that level
And contact the Solo Board in conjunction - http://www.sebscca.com/
(Which I will do as soon asap, phone doesn't load the form)

Thanks for being thorough with this.

I know that all of us would like you to see you find a way to legalize this and run it, but it is very wise to make sure that you would be covered by event
insurance (as well as the Region) should an unforeseen catastrophe occur. Any potential liabilities must be clearly covered.

Don't know how your luck goes, but in my world it's ......."What can go wrong, will.......". tongue.gif


--------------------
Scott Meyers
2006 Mazda3S "STS" .......(Really just a Miata with four doors and a trunk......)
Education is important. Race Cars are importanter
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dhymers
post Feb 22 2012, 07:16 PM
Post #14





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 56
Joined: 6-July 07
From: Tucson AZ
Member No.: 1127



Thanks Scott,

If I can't race this one ... there will be something else tongue.gif

I emailed the board, so we'll see what happens. I hope I get a call.

edit
I didn't include these and perhaps I should have ...

Controller Manual - http://www.4qd.co.uk/instrs/PDF/300_09b17t.pdf
Battery Spec Sheet - http://www.replacementupsbattery.com/Produ.../wka12-33j.html
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dhymers
post Mar 5 2012, 07:52 AM
Post #15





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 56
Joined: 6-July 07
From: Tucson AZ
Member No.: 1127



this might gvive a clue to how fast my kart is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDMSJlbuA38...be_gdata_player

Not as fast as most. laugh.gif
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