IPB     IPB     IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )
Azsolo.com · Results · Registration

Tire Rack

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> 2/10 Course Feedback Thread
ESpeidell
post Feb 11 2007, 10:40 AM
Post #1





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 1106
Joined: 16-March 05
From: Surprise!, AZ
Member No.: 442



As the title says, it's course feedback time. smile.gif

What did you like, what didn't you like, general comments, heckling, etc...


--------------------
Elliot Speidell
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DXE
post Feb 11 2007, 11:01 AM
Post #2





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 268
Joined: 22-January 06
From: Central Phx
Member No.: 557



hmmm the course was a excellent use of the small space!

if i was making it.. i would have made the start a bit longer because it was a little hard to pick where to shift into 2nd

the last 2 turns were EXCELLENT... i learned alot about understeer and oversteer of my car in those corners

even thought i left about 3 seconds out there... practice makes perfect...


we could have probably made a Chicago box at the top of the course for fun tongue.gif


--------------------
[b]Goran Novakovic

97 Integra The Off-Road edition is no longer... :(
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Elvis
post Feb 11 2007, 11:18 AM
Post #3





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 49
Joined: 3-March 06
Member No.: 581



Great course. It had a great flow to it. The second slalom allowed one to pick one's poison. Power out of the turn before and go outside with a braking turn before the reverse s. Or, stay tight, go inside and enjoy a nice long sweeper.

I enjoy your courses and Rob R's courses the most. Thanks for the awesome design and setup.


--------------------
Wil Evans
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
D. Eymann
post Feb 11 2007, 11:52 AM
Post #4





Group: AZ Region Member
Posts: 50
Joined: 17-November 03
Member No.: 243



That middle section was spatially challenging for me - from course set up to TO's! Never did get it right! I think my brain likes loops better! wacko.gif Other than that it was fun. (I have a new appreciation for "course set-up" .)


--------------------
Deb Eymann
Oh Solo Me-O
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Random1
post Feb 11 2007, 12:40 PM
Post #5





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 2092
Joined: 4-October 04
From: Tucson
Member No.: 369



The course was great and flowing if you got it right, it you didn't there was no way to recover. Sneaky! ph34r.gif

I tried out left foot braking for the first time during this event in three places, the top left turn and the two sweepers. The two sweepers were perfect places to try this out. Thanks.

I told Elliot I didn't like the course right after because I didn't do well during the competition runs, but I was very satisfied after time onlys.


--------------------
Rob Rockefeller
2003 Honda S2000 - STR


Pirate Class


Random1Racing.com My STR Prep Arizona Autocross Photos
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SMeyers
post Feb 11 2007, 01:21 PM
Post #6





Group: Steering Comm., voting member
Posts: 8820
Joined: 6-December 02
From: Glendale AZ
Member No.: 4



Before I ran I thought it would be fun, and afterward didn't change my mind. I enjoyed the
course design and the driving challenges presented.

It is an old adage that if one designs a course with a crossover then there will be issues, and
unfortunately there were some "visual challenges" as evidenced by the higher than average
number of DNF's. I personally had trouble "seeing" the gate following the two cone slalom, but second run
I simply looked for the left side of the following gate and had no issues thereafter. I had no problem
with the first slalom, not did Glenda (she's my test subject; if she's OK then usually anyone is).

Therefore, and in conclusion:

1. Future crossovers will need additional definition IMO.

2. I think that if *anyone* has two or three DNF's that *we* must approach them and offer some
assistance; at a minimum information about WHERE it's occurring, or perhaps even a "guide"
to ride along.

3. Also, we must finally address the problems caused by the finish being away from the sound system
and scoreboard. I know that at least one person had four DNF's and did not know that, nor did
anyone tell her.


--------------------
Scott Meyers
2006 Mazda3S "STS" .......(Really just a Miata with four doors and a trunk......)
Education is important. Race Cars are importanter
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dave Munsey
post Feb 11 2007, 04:37 PM
Post #7





Group: AZ Region Member
Posts: 2472
Joined: 14-January 03
From: Phoenix
Member No.: 35



QUOTE (SMeyers @ Feb 11 2007, 01:21 PM) *
Before I ran I thought it would be fun, and afterward didn't change my mind. I enjoyed the
course design and the driving challenges presented.

It is an old adage that if one designs a course with a crossover then there will be issues, and
unfortunately there were some "visual challenges" as evidenced by the higher than average
number of DNF's. I personally had trouble "seeing" the gate following the two cone slalom, but second run
I simply looked for the left side of the following gate and had no issues thereafter. I had no problem
with the first slalom, not did Glenda (she's my test subject; if she's OK then usually anyone is).

Therefore, and in conclusion:

1. Future crossovers will need additional definition IMO.

2. I think that if *anyone* has two or three DNF's that *we* must approach them and offer some
assistance; at a minimum information about WHERE it's occurring, or perhaps even a "guide"
to ride along.

3. Also, we must finally address the problems caused by the finish being away from the sound system
and scoreboard. I know that at least one person had four DNF's and did not know that, nor did
anyone tell her.



My first posting in 3 months and I see changes have been made to our forum. Oh, well , in commenting on Scotts comments we used to watch more closely for people who were making multiple DNF's and get them some assistance before their whole day was ruined with DNF's and that should always be the policy really so that everyone can have an enjoyable day and not just the "fast " people. The idea would be of course to get to them before they had used up all of their competition runs. Best thing would be a ride along from someone who had already done their competition runs. We were doing this and don't know when/if we stopped.

A comment of my own. In at least one afternoon run group there was no information on the scoreboard showing cones or DNF's , just the times. The reason was that the scoreboard person could not hear the P.A. over the road racing noise I believe. In the afternoon the scoreboard is on the back side of the trailer and away from any window. This could probably stand correction in the future too if there is road racing at the same time as our event.

My expensive Bose stereo picked up the 96.1 broadcast everywhere but at the finish for some reason.

I also agree with Scotts comments on making maximum use of visual aids on complex crossovers. I personally had no trouble with it but a large number of people did including some very experienced people.


--------------------
DAVE MUNSEY
2002 Boxster S
A Street Prepared
( ASP?? Your kidding me aren't you? Oh, I forgot, it's a Porsche. )
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
M McCombs
post Feb 11 2007, 06:25 PM
Post #8





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 27
Joined: 30-January 03
From: Phoenix, AZ
Member No.: 88



I would like to say that I thought the course was fun and challenging. I think that both of the main places that people were DNFing was going into the first slalomn and coming out of the next. Both of these places rewarded looking ahead, a practice that
some of us fail to do some times and something that inexperienced people a lot of times dont do at all. I agree about needing to let people know about DNF's, would have been nice to have a person handing out times/ info. I also think this type of course would make a great driving school course except probably needs a longer slalomn somewhere. Good job all around with course design.

Thanks,
Marc McCombs


--------------------
Marc McCombs
out of control blue S2000
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
geren
post Feb 11 2007, 06:59 PM
Post #9





Group: AZ Region Member
Posts: 498
Joined: 15-January 03
Member No.: 50



I thought it was a great design (though it's never really that fun to get beaten in your own car...). I found the entrance/early part of the final sweeper very bumpy, and it actually kicked the rear up and out hard enough to eject water from my intercooler sprayer tank in the trunk. If we'd had more room, I'd have liked to see more of a slalom in the middle, but the design flowed well.

Seems like it's getting bumpier and bumpier, and you can only work around it so much.

Same problem with radio reception only at the finish, perhaps due to the power lines above? Fortunately, I could still see the timer in the distance.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
wannagofaster
post Feb 11 2007, 07:33 PM
Post #10





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 8550
Joined: 20-January 03
From: Phoenix, AZ
Member No.: 76



take this with a grain of salt, as i had ZERO sleep the night before:

i got lost on my first run into the crossover slalom. figured it out on second careful run and did not have a problem the rest of the day. the rest of the course was fun, and yes, looking ahead helped a lot! i can't say i drove worth a damn, but happy to at least come close to Mr. Fast in the same car with new Hoosiers. if i ever learn to sleep, and didn't have sore feet from walking, and excuse generator etcs, i would have felt better about my own performance, but Don proved that the car is capable. the course was a blast, though, and i enjoyed that aspect of the day. good job, guys! wink.gif


--------------------
Dave Lahey ~Team Wrinkles~ I drive, therefore I am.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
fahrvergnugen
post Feb 11 2007, 08:32 PM
Post #11





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 4402
Joined: 6-December 02
Member No.: 5



"A+" course in my book. Very challenging and not too favorable to any particular car.

Lots of "line" decisions which adds interest.

You also managed to avoid the bumpy parts, so the course was quite smooth for me.

Only problem I saw was already mentioned with the finish so far from the speakers/display so that you did not imemediately get your time. But this could be solved with placing one display further down near the exit gate (facing grid area) or yet another speaker down there. I would hate to compromise good course designs like yours in order to give the finisher a closer look at the display... huh.gif

Good job, Elliot. I think you and Rob are now my preferred course designers.... tongue.gif


--------------------
Mark Shaw
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Darrell Covert
post Feb 11 2007, 10:21 PM
Post #12





Group: AZ Region Member
Posts: 1176
Joined: 5-October 03
From: Gilbert, Az.
Member No.: 221



I never got disorientated nor had any hesitation in this course. I never got the transition after the second slalom correct going on the outside of the first cone. But the four wheel drift after the first slalom and catching it just right to go WOT was the best thrill of the day. I loved going 33.065 with a 225 lb. passenger. I guess I need someone with me to go faster. laugh.gif

This course benefited the driver that looked way ahead, and opted to make large sweepers out of it.


--------------------
Call Darrell when you want to sell real estate FAST!

Realty Executives Corvette Z 06 # 96 SSM/ TTS L'tl Blu'
Le Mans Corvette -Superstock

'08 Az Region NASA TTS Champion
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
fzust
post Feb 12 2007, 06:47 AM
Post #13





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 1231
Joined: 17-August 05
Member No.: 497



I think the course was excellent w/ the exception of it being visually challenging. I agree with the DNF issue as I had 3 I didn't know about. Funny thing is that I couldn't hear the speakers at the finish OR when I was doing scoreboard 8 ft from the announcer! So what are the speakers for? tongue.gif


--------------------
Indentured Mechanic
fzust
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
blacksihatch
post Feb 12 2007, 08:33 AM
Post #14





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 22
Joined: 6-December 05
Member No.: 538



had a good time..i think i could've done a bit better but the track was fun, never hit a cone or got "lost"...they do allow people to walk the track first before you run right? blink.gif


--------------------
ERIC
Bhatchracing
93 Civic SI DOHC JDM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kvenisn
post Feb 12 2007, 10:36 AM
Post #15





Group: Steering Comm., voting member
Posts: 4411
Joined: 14-January 03
From: Scottsdale
Member No.: 24



Speakers and 2nd display (new this event) were placed at the limit's the cable allow them to go. Equipment can only support so much cable length. FM transmitter has always been somewhat marginal.

Future plans are being worked to improve the situation, but depending on course layout, just the fact that we have a 2nd display now should help the situation.

Thanks to Deb for coming out early to help with setup, she was there before me!

Also, I'm not the greatest with names and faces so thanks to anyone else that helped with setup or teardown.


--------------------
Kevin Venisnik
2018 AZ Region Solo Director
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Accordz
post Feb 12 2007, 10:39 AM
Post #16





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 43
Joined: 10-February 03
From: Avondale, AZ
Member No.: 104



Its probably a combination of driving a new car and not being out there in a long time, but I kept getting myself screwed up going into the second slalom ..... oh well smile.gif still a great course ... the last turn going into the finish was great!


--------------------
Tony Ohmer
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ESpeidell
post Feb 12 2007, 12:49 PM
Post #17





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 1106
Joined: 16-March 05
From: Surprise!, AZ
Member No.: 442



Good Feedback, thanks. I think that fewer cones in the crossover area would have cleaned it up visually, not as much junk grabbing your eye, and a timeslip worker would have been great (I didn't know I coned away my fast run until Sunday)

We do need to find a way to help the newbies with multiple DNF's in Run Group A out, maybe the PRO or SPM guys could be allowed to ride along for guidance?


--------------------
Elliot Speidell
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
silverbulletEP3
post Feb 12 2007, 03:41 PM
Post #18





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 68
Joined: 6-December 04
Member No.: 392



I agree with most of what was said already.

I did have one safety concern for the worker station in the NW corner - There was a couple times when a driver got disoriented and was driving right at the guy standing there. It was a bad spot because 2 different times on course a car is charging roughly in that worker's direction as opposed to the SW corner station where the cars are centrifically being pulled away from the center where the workers are standing.

I'm sure it kept that course worker awake tho :-o


--------------------
Matt Clower
1998 BMW M3 - Dakar Yellow
1991 Mazda MX-5 Miata
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
00Hawk95
post Feb 12 2007, 04:03 PM
Post #19





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 117
Joined: 27-February 04
From: Buckeye, AZ
Member No.: 290



QUOTE (ESpeidell @ Feb 12 2007, 12:49 PM) *
a timeslip worker would have been great (I didn't know I coned away my fast run until Sunday)

I worked the "traffic control" position for F & G... with a little repositioning of the speaker & 2nd display, I could've easily provided timeslips. For those that asked, I tried to tell them their time based on what I saw/heard.

I liked the course. Didn't have any problems with the crossover. cool.gif


--------------------
- Chris Black
1998 Pontiac Trans Am
2011 Camaro RS
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
03XRS
post Feb 13 2007, 02:24 PM
Post #20





Group: Members
Posts: 2
Joined: 9-February 07
Member No.: 1047



Liked the course a lot; this was my second time autocrossing; so I'm still a newbie. I actually liked the positioning of the first slalom, made it a challenge to choose where to shift as someone else commented. I made the mistake on my last run of trying to go into the slalom in first gear and probably lost at least a half second. The only complaint I would have with the course was that the turn coming out of the slalom seemed to confuse a lot of people visually, and there were probably more DNFs caused by visibility problems there versus actual driving mistakes
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 20th March 2019 - 02:22 AM