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> Thank you!, 9/16/18 event
S. Roberts
post Sep 17 2018, 01:49 PM
Post #1





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 728
Joined: 18-August 03
From: Phoenix AZ
Member No.: 172



First: Thank you for the decision to line the course.

Second: Thanks to Elliott Speidell for his decision to line the entire course and not just a few select portions.

Third: Thanks to all involved in organizing this event and all the events.

Fourth: Thanks to Dave Hurt, course designer, for the lack of a "sea of cones". The course was much easier to visualize, especially with the course lining (repeating: as is done with ALL NATIONAL COURSES).

Comment: If my addition is correct, there were ONLY 15 TOTAL DNF'S BY NOVICES. That's a total for the entire event, not just the first run group, where it was common. It would appear that AZ. Region has hit the jackpot with the desire to make the courses easier for the novices (and the seasoned!) to follow with course design changes and course lining, and hopefully more of the novices will return to AMP for repeat performances.

Comment: A great idea to have burritos available for purchase for breakfast. Hopefully, it will be publicized in the future (unless I missed the posting) so we aren't trying to force food down at 5:30 in the mornings before leaving the house. They looked yummy -- and I was sorry I wasn't hungry enough to buy one.

Good job all!

biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif


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Sharon Roberts
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SSLance
post Sep 17 2018, 02:37 PM
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Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 117
Joined: 19-November 17
Member No.: 189796



I second all of the above!!! Great job everyone.


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Lance Hamilton
1985 Monte Carlo SS CAM T
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Jahoney
post Sep 17 2018, 02:49 PM
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Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 451
Joined: 3-December 15
Member No.: 174480



Agreed! The course lining was very helpful! Hopefully that will continue.

Outside of the heat which couldn't be helped (obviously), the event was a lot of fun and as an Observer for my work group, not having to call 30% of the runs as DNF's was nice!

As well, I wish I had known of the breakfast burritos. I probably just missed the announcement, though.

Very appreciative of all who put this together, keep it running smoothly (especially considering the heat), and those that close the event up.



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Josh Mahoney
1990 Mazda Miata MX-5 STS
THE Jahoney
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kvenisn
post Sep 30 2018, 11:54 AM
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Group: Steering Comm., voting member
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From: Scottsdale
Member No.: 24



Just so people understand what is required to line the courses at AMP.

Elliot got there around 6 am with the rest of the setup crew, after setting up the course he then lined the entire course by himself. All that left him very little time to get any course walks in and get himself and is car to run.

Part of AMP's requirement for lining the course is that we remove the lines at the end of the day, so after the event, in the heat of the day Elliot went around the whole course to remove the lines.

Meanwhile, I think I got a grand total of 2 or 3 volunteers to mark cones with drywall after course was setup and before it was open for walking.

Not sure how sustainable lining the entire course is going to be unless we have some more volunteers to help with lining/marking the course.

This particular course was laid out in a manner that made it pretty quick to set up and a little easier to follow. Making conclusions about course lining after 1 event is a little premature.

FWIW, on the Novice drivers I was instructing that day who was running only his 5th autox ever never even saw or noticed the lines on course. It's always been my experience and my position if you are using the course lining to find your way around course then you are not doing the things you need to do to get a fast time.


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Kevin Venisnik
2018 AZ Region Solo Director
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SMeyers
post Sep 30 2018, 12:37 PM
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Group: Steering Committee
Posts: 8887
Joined: 6-December 02
From: Glendale AZ
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QUOTE (kvenisn @ Sep 30 2018, 11:54 AM) *
Not sure how sustainable lining the entire course is going to be unless we have some more volunteers to help with lining/marking the course.

This particular course was laid out in a manner that made it pretty quick to set up and a little easier to follow. Making conclusions about course lining after 1 event is a little premature.

FWIW, on the Novice drivers I was instructing that day who was running only his 5th autox ever never even saw or noticed the lines on course. It's always been my experience and my position if you are using the course lining to find your way around course then you are not doing the things you need to do to get a fast time.

Big Picture About Course Lining - Dave H has learned to design courses that are less "challenging" for the eye to follow. He has reduced cones so that those that are in the driver's view are MOSTLY the ones you need to see for your next steering input. This is great, but especially when you are newer to the sport you really don't know what to look for and what certain cone placements mean. Like the "one cone up next to one cone down" scenario. *We* older and or experienced drivers know that it can be a gate, a slalom cone, or an apex cone. Other facets around that point are clues, that thanks to "prior knowledge", *we* know what to do.

Agree that we need more data on course lining to draw any conclusions, but the past data of 40 to 100 DNF's per event is on the books. Something different needed to be done to address this issue. Thanks to Dave's design efforts, it was improving without lines.

Note that this is a safety concern too, as with some course lining it is far less likely that a car someday will get off course at the worst possible moment. Safer for workers, and also a positive thing for our Kart drivers. Ever try to see the course from sitting that low? rolleyes.gif

I totally agree that Elliot taking this all on himself is unsustainable, and unfair in soooo many ways. I further suggest that we explore PARTIAL lining for our local events. Other venues in other places are doing this now, too. But doing the actual lining would IMO take someone with some range of experience or specific instructions from the course designer.

Finally, for someone new to say that they didn't even see the lines is interesting, but unrealistic. They may have thought they didn't, but subconsciously they really did. I was not there (damn it), but in speaking to others who were, the appreciation for finally lining the courses was mentioned often. And this from even more experienced people (NOT just Sharon wink.gif ). That, and this is not about "fast times", it's about not getting lost.

I can't wait to try out this next course. Rough draft is still being approved, but it's gonna be a good one. cool.gif

So, I agree with much of what Kevin said. Can't be just Elliot, likely we don't have to line the entire course, and keep gathering data to gauge the effect of these efforts.


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Scott Meyers
2006 Mazda3S "STS" .......(Really just a Miata with four doors and a trunk......and +500#)
Education is important. Race Cars are importanter
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ESpeidell
post Sep 30 2018, 01:24 PM
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Wasn't just me, BP was helping as well.


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Elliot Speidell
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SMeyers
post Sep 30 2018, 01:52 PM
Post #7





Group: Steering Committee
Posts: 8887
Joined: 6-December 02
From: Glendale AZ
Member No.: 4



QUOTE (ESpeidell @ Sep 30 2018, 01:24 PM) *
Wasn't just me, BP was helping as well.

OK.....

“Cant just be Elliot and Brian......”. dry.gif

Better? tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif


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Scott Meyers
2006 Mazda3S "STS" .......(Really just a Miata with four doors and a trunk......and +500#)
Education is important. Race Cars are importanter
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