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Hapa88
post Dec 5 2018, 11:57 AM
Post #1





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 4
Joined: 26-November 18
Member No.: 212942



Hi all,

I'm relatively new to autocross (I did one SCCA event back in El Toro in July 2011) and was in the process of signing up for this weekend's event but wanted to make sure I signed up correctly. I have a few questions:

1) What's my competition category? I'm not really looking to compete, just out for fun and time against myself. Should I go "Novice" or "Open"? What's the difference? I've done a number of HPDE events, though, and am a member of the NASA AZ group.

2) What's my SCCA Autocross Class? I tried reviewing the SCCA rule book, but it's not the easiest to digest...I have two potential cars I could bring and I'm leaning towards bringing out my 1995 Acura NSX. It has an aftermarket Supercharger, KW Coilovers, exhaust, aftermarket wheels/tires, a few parts from the Type-R model, among other things. From what I can tell it's probably one of these: B Street Class (BS), A Street Prepared (ASP), or F Prepared (FP)

The other car is 2008 Mazdaspeed3. It has an ECU Flash, intake, test pipe and exhaust. "Heavy Duty" shocks and I would plan to use AD08R tires and possibly upgraded pads (though I may get lazy for this time out). Everything else is stock. Seems like it would be one of these: G Street Class (GS), Street Touring Hatchback (STH), or D Street Prepared (DSP)

3) What time does the event end on Saturday?

Thank you all for your help! Looking forward to this Saturday and hope the weather cooperates!






--------------------
-Adrian
2008 Mazda Mazdaspeed3
1995 Acura NSX-T
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SMeyers
post Dec 5 2018, 01:50 PM
Post #2





Group: Steering Comm., voting member
Posts: 8713
Joined: 6-December 02
From: Glendale AZ
Member No.: 4



QUOTE (Hapa88 @ Dec 5 2018, 11:57 AM) *
1) What's my competition category? I'm not really looking to compete, just out for fun and time against myself. Should I go "Novice" or "Open"? What's the difference? I've done a number of HPDE events, though, and am a member of the NASA AZ group.

Anyone who has competed in autocrossing a year or less (or eight events or Trophy) is considered a Novice. However, if you feel that your Track experience gives you an unfair advantage against pure Novices, choose Open. It is your choice. You could also choose "PAX', which has you compete against others not in your Class, but uses a handicap time index for scoring.

QUOTE (Hapa88 @ Dec 5 2018, 11:57 AM) *
2) What's my SCCA Autocross Class? I tried reviewing the SCCA rule book, but it's not the easiest to digest...I have two potential cars I could bring and I'm leaning towards bringing out my 1995 Acura NSX. It has an aftermarket Supercharger, KW Coilovers, exhaust, aftermarket wheels/tires, a few parts from the Type-R model, among other things. From what I can tell it's probably one of these: B Street Class (BS), A Street Prepared (ASP), or F Prepared (FP)

Well, you know it's not Stock (Street), right? wink.gif
Not listed in anywhere Street Touring, so on to ASP. Read their allowed mods on page 70ff
Perhaps SSM (Page 177), allowed Mods on page 95ff
Or FP, mods listed on page 99ff

Go with the one with the best (lowest)PAX Factor.

QUOTE (Hapa88 @ Dec 5 2018, 11:57 AM) *
The other car is 2008 Mazdaspeed3. It has an ECU Flash, intake, test pipe and exhaust. "Heavy Duty" shocks and I would plan to use AD08R tires and possibly upgraded pads (though I may get lazy for this time out). Everything else is stock. Seems like it would be one of these: G Street Class (GS), Street Touring Hatchback (STH), or D Street Prepared (DSP)

Well, again, not Street.
Sounds like STH, but read their allowed Mods to be sure (page 69ff) Otherwise DSP. Not sure what a Test Pipe is or does.
Those particular tires come in 180 and 200 UTQG ratings. Needs to be a "200" size for STH.

QUOTE (Hapa88 @ Dec 5 2018, 11:57 AM) *
3) What time does the event end on Saturday?

Depends on if you run one set of timed runs, or Time Onlys too. And what Run Group(s) you are in. I run A/C and usually leave around noon to head back to Phoenix. Group D would end more like 2:00'ish or so. Also depends on number of cars and course length to some degree.

Did this help?


--------------------
Scott Meyers
2006 Mazda3S H Street
Education is important. Race Cars are importanter
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Hapa88
post Dec 5 2018, 04:08 PM
Post #3





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 4
Joined: 26-November 18
Member No.: 212942



Thanks a lot Scott. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

QUOTE (SMeyers @ Dec 5 2018, 01:50 PM) *
Anyone who has competed in autocrossing a year or less (or eight events or Trophy) is considered a Novice. However, if you feel that your Track experience gives you an unfair advantage against pure Novices, choose Open. It is your choice. You could also choose "PAX', which has you compete against others not in your Class, but uses a handicap time index for scoring.
It sounds like OPEN is the way to go, at least for this go around..

QUOTE (SMeyers @ Dec 5 2018, 01:50 PM) *
Well, you know it's not Stock (Street), right? wink.gif Not listed in anywhere Street Touring, so on to ASP. Read their allowed mods on page 70ff Perhaps SSM (Page 177), allowed Mods on page 95ff Or FP, mods listed on page 99ff Go with the one with the best (lowest)PAX Factor.
I know it's not "stock", but it's also "street legal", so hence the confusion. I tried reading all the mods but it doesn't really talk much about aftermarket Superchargers. I figured that mod alone would bump it to one of the highest categories.

QUOTE (SMeyers @ Dec 5 2018, 01:50 PM) *
Well, again, not Street. Sounds like STH, but read their allowed Mods to be sure (page 69ff) Otherwise DSP. Not sure what a Test Pipe is or does. Those particular tires come in 180 and 200 UTQG ratings. Needs to be a "200" size for STH.
The 2008 Mazdaspeed3s have two cats. The first one has the O2 sensor attached to it, the 2nd is just an extra cat to make it even cleaner. The "test pipe", as they call them, replaces the 2nd cat with a straight pipe. I just checked my TireRack order and I got the 180 UTQG rated tires. Otherwise the street tires are Hankook V12 Evo2 that have a 320 UTQG rating

QUOTE (SMeyers @ Dec 5 2018, 01:50 PM) *
Depends on if you run one set of timed runs, or Time Onlys too. And what Run Group(s) you are in. I run A/C and usually leave around noon to head back to Phoenix. Group D would end more like 2:00'ish or so. Also depends on number of cars and course length to some degree. Did this help?
I don't quite understand what "Time Onlys" is.. When are "Time Onlys" done and how do they differ from the standard "timed runs"? I thought all runs were timed...

Thanks again for all your help!


--------------------
-Adrian
2008 Mazda Mazdaspeed3
1995 Acura NSX-T
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SMeyers
post Dec 5 2018, 04:34 PM
Post #4





Group: Steering Comm., voting member
Posts: 8713
Joined: 6-December 02
From: Glendale AZ
Member No.: 4



OK, good questions. No problem, glad to help.

There are many here that have been doing this for so long, that they can forget how all this looks to newcomers. I think the term is "Self-explanatory". rolleyes.gif

Open is a good place to start. I favor that too over factors and handicapping.

"Street" in SCCA-Speak refers mostly to "tires". Street Tires, on Stock cars. Stock has a very narrow definition in "SCCA-Land" as to what you can add and stay "Stock". One swaybar, cat-back, wheels +/1 one inch in diameter only, air cleaner, shocks with stock perches.......read up on that. There is a list.

All Street cars and Street Touring cars must have 200 UTQG tires. Period. If not, onward. Unless your competitors don't care. Many won't. wink.gif

SSM sounds like a good fit, but I'm not there, and have not done that reading. Suggest you do.

Your "Entry" is one set of timed runs that count for trophies. Your first set of timed runs. "Time Only" is a SECOND set of timed runs that day that are like extra practice. Yes, you get times, but they are listed separately and do not count towards trophies.

Better? cool.gif tongue.gif wink.gif





--------------------
Scott Meyers
2006 Mazda3S H Street
Education is important. Race Cars are importanter
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renfield90
post Dec 5 2018, 11:21 PM
Post #5





Group: AZ Region Member
Posts: 2384
Joined: 30-November 05
From: Tempe, AZ
Member No.: 532



Register in the Novice category, it's more fun your first few times out. smile.gif

NSX: class is SSM due to blower
Speed3: class is DSP if there are zero cats in your exhaust stream, STH if you have at least one.

I strongly recommend pre-registering if you can even if you're not sure what car you're bringing. It's easier on us to change your car/class onsite than it is to do a walk-up registration.


--------------------
Manfred Reysser
2001 Celica GT - gone to the clearing at the end of the path
2013 FR-S

"As long as my car goes I drive it. I like racing to the limit, first and last." - Gilles Villeneuve
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JBsSRT4
post Dec 6 2018, 07:59 AM
Post #6





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 370
Joined: 3-March 05
From: Tucson, Az
Member No.: 434



I'm a little out of touch with the ST rules, but if the MS3's flashed ECU increased boost it would be disqualified. So either DSP or SMF.


--------------------
Jamal Brewer
'04 Dodge SRT-4 (SMF) all encompassing race car
'15 Mustang GT (FS) dd
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freakin_elrod
post Dec 6 2018, 08:21 AM
Post #7





Group: Steering Committee
Posts: 203
Joined: 14-September 12
Member No.: 64503



QUOTE (JBsSRT4 @ Dec 6 2018, 08:59 AM) *
I'm a little out of touch with the ST rules, but if the MS3's flashed ECU increased boost it would be disqualified. So either DSP or SMF.


Actually ST allows for open ecu tuning now so if he runs the speed3, depending on other mods, could be classed as an STH car. Aftermarket intercoolers are still not allowed, and he must have at least one cat within 6 inches of the factory location if he is running a downpipe. The latest fastrack has factory location replacement intercoolers pegged for approval in 2020 unless otherwise stated.


--------------------
Sid Elorde
2015 Focus ST
StreetTouringHeavyFWDsh*tbox
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JBsSRT4
post Dec 6 2018, 08:32 AM
Post #8





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 370
Joined: 3-March 05
From: Tucson, Az
Member No.: 434



Of course they change it after I've already committed to E85. Jerks. laugh.gif


--------------------
Jamal Brewer
'04 Dodge SRT-4 (SMF) all encompassing race car
'15 Mustang GT (FS) dd
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Hapa88
post Dec 6 2018, 08:38 AM
Post #9





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 4
Joined: 26-November 18
Member No.: 212942



QUOTE (SMeyers @ Dec 5 2018, 04:34 PM) *
OK, good questions. No problem, glad to help. There are many here that have been doing this for so long, that they can forget how all this looks to newcomers. I think the term is "Self-explanatory". rolleyes.gif Open is a good place to start. I favor that too over factors and handicapping. "Street" in SCCA-Speak refers mostly to "tires". Street Tires, on Stock cars. Stock has a very narrow definition in "SCCA-Land" as to what you can add and stay "Stock". One swaybar, cat-back, wheels +/1 one inch in diameter only, air cleaner, shocks with stock perches.......read up on that. There is a list. All Street cars and Street Touring cars must have 200 UTQG tires. Period. If not, onward. Unless your competitors don't care. Many won't. wink.gif SSM sounds like a good fit, but I'm not there, and have not done that reading. Suggest you do. Your "Entry" is one set of timed runs that count for trophies. Your first set of timed runs. "Time Only" is a SECOND set of timed runs that day that are like extra practice. Yes, you get times, but they are listed separately and do not count towards trophies. Better? cool.gif tongue.gif wink.gif


QUOTE (renfield90 @ Dec 5 2018, 11:21 PM) *
Register in the Novice category, it's more fun your first few times out. smile.gif NSX: class is SSM due to blower Speed3: class is DSP if there are zero cats in your exhaust stream, STH if you have at least one. I strongly recommend pre-registering if you can even if you're not sure what car you're bringing. It's easier on us to change your car/class onsite than it is to do a walk-up registration.


Thank you all, I registered and went ahead with the Novice group, figured it would be good to be around others that are a little clueless as to what is going on too. laugh.gif

I guess I just pay when I get onsite on Saturday?






--------------------
-Adrian
2008 Mazda Mazdaspeed3
1995 Acura NSX-T
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SMeyers
post Dec 6 2018, 08:41 AM
Post #10





Group: Steering Comm., voting member
Posts: 8713
Joined: 6-December 02
From: Glendale AZ
Member No.: 4



All, it really takes an entire community to keep up with the many nuances of SCCA Classing. Pretty sure there is not one person who knows or recalls it all. Thanks to everyone chipping in to find the answers.

I used to know most of this, but in recent years its just expanded into even more Classes and Special Groups that pretty much demands you keep a copy of the latest rules nearby, as well as FasTrack (*monthly* rules updates). And as shared above, there are some detailed adjustments known only pretty much by those difectly involved.

What’s the old saying.......oh yeah.... “It takes a Village”.

It really does.👍



BTW... I’ve already paid by PayPal. Details on theiir site. Speeds registration.


--------------------
Scott Meyers
2006 Mazda3S H Street
Education is important. Race Cars are importanter
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SMeyers
post Dec 6 2018, 04:11 PM
Post #11





Group: Steering Comm., voting member
Posts: 8713
Joined: 6-December 02
From: Glendale AZ
Member No.: 4



Roads looking clear. C'mon down. (Or "up", SV people).

See y'all Saturday. And some others Sunday too at AMP. cool.gif

Attached Image


--------------------
Scott Meyers
2006 Mazda3S H Street
Education is important. Race Cars are importanter
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Fuzzy_Wuzzy
post Dec 7 2018, 12:49 PM
Post #12





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 83
Joined: 1-November 10
From: Tucson, AZ
Member No.: 2727



Glad to hear that you will be coming out! I would make sure you get there closer to the 7:45/8 am time to allow you a chance to register/pay, get your car thru tech, walk the course then participate in the Novice walk of the course (gives good tips on how to AutoX + describes work assignments and how the event runs).



--------------------
Dan Gurney
2007 CTS-V -- ESP CAM... Sure 245 tires are all a 3900 lb car needs
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SMeyers
post Dec 7 2018, 01:01 PM
Post #13





Group: Steering Comm., voting member
Posts: 8713
Joined: 6-December 02
From: Glendale AZ
Member No.: 4



QUOTE (Fuzzy_Wuzzy @ Dec 7 2018, 12:49 PM) *
Glad to hear that you will be coming out! I would make sure you get there closer to the 7:45/8 am time to allow you a chance to register/pay, get your car thru tech, walk the course then participate in the Novice walk of the course (gives good tips on how to AutoX + describes work assignments and how the event runs).

All good advice. Pretty sure "Hapa88" is a fast learner because sounded like he already registered online, and he may even have caught the hint to pay early with PayPal. Saves a lot of time once onsite. That Novice Course walk with Kate is well worth the time, also.

Now then, all we have left to do is teach him how to add a signature line for his account so we don't always have to say "Hey you!" or "Hey Hapa"!. wink.gif wink.gif

So we need to look for either an NSX or Mazdaspeed3 with a driver who looks a little confused. Should be easy. rolleyes.gif tongue.gif


--------------------
Scott Meyers
2006 Mazda3S H Street
Education is important. Race Cars are importanter
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Hapa88
post Dec 7 2018, 06:05 PM
Post #14





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 4
Joined: 26-November 18
Member No.: 212942



QUOTE (SMeyers @ Dec 7 2018, 02:01 PM) *
QUOTE (Fuzzy_Wuzzy @ Dec 7 2018, 12:49 PM) *
Glad to hear that you will be coming out! I would make sure you get there closer to the 7:45/8 am time to allow you a chance to register/pay, get your car thru tech, walk the course then participate in the Novice walk of the course (gives good tips on how to AutoX + describes work assignments and how the event runs).

All good advice. Pretty sure "Hapa88" is a fast learner because sounded like he already registered online, and he may even have caught the hint to pay early with PayPal. Saves a lot of time once onsite. That Novice Course walk with Kate is well worth the time, also.

Now then, all we have left to do is teach him how to add a signature line for his account so we don't always have to say "Hey you!" or "Hey Hapa"!. wink.gif wink.gif

So we need to look for either an NSX or Mazdaspeed3 with a driver who looks a little confused. Should be easy. rolleyes.gif tongue.gif


I saw the Paypal option, but didn't like paying fees if I can avoid it! If it's more convenient for us to Paypal then, shouldn't WE get the convenience fee credit?? tongue.gif biggrin.gif Less fees = more go fast parts! biggrin.gif

Since the rain is letting up, I'm planning to bring the NSX.. it's red and pretty easy to spot. And just look for a big duffus driving it in or walking around.. lol

I updated my sig and profile pic. Hopefully that's good enough for now.



--------------------
-Adrian
2008 Mazda Mazdaspeed3
1995 Acura NSX-T
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