IPB     IPB     IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )
Azsolo.com · Results · Registration

Tire Rack

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Restricting Events to 3 runs
Bob Lob Law
post Feb 21 2020, 02:03 PM
Post #1





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 80
Joined: 8-March 16
Member No.: 175044



The last event was reduced to 3 runs because of high turnout. It was great to see so many at the event, including a lot of novices. The novices I instructed (and myself and probably most drivers) were pretty disappointed at the reduced runs. When necessary, could we reduce the TO runs and keep 4 competition runs?


--------------------
Todd A.
HS Focus SVT
SSC Scion FRS
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mike Rogers
post Feb 21 2020, 02:35 PM
Post #2





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 942
Joined: 22-August 03
Member No.: 177



I agree with Todd's opinion on TO's cool.gif


--------------------
Mike Rogers
H Street Honda Civic Si

"You can't trust atoms, they make up everything!"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SMeyers
post Feb 21 2020, 03:25 PM
Post #3





Group: Steering Committee
Posts: 9110
Joined: 6-December 02
From: Glendale AZ
Member No.: 4



I know in the past limiting TOs was the norm, but regular entries this day were somewhat higher than earlier events. And as always, there is the potential for unknowns that can and do delay an event; timing lights go down, lots of reruns, even perhaps an oil spill on course. And EVERYONE must be off site by.....what...... 5:00? Packed and gone.

So, with sticking to the four runs, and something delays the event substantially, it may not even be enough to limit TOs. Even possible theyd have to be cancelled.

Best to err on the side of caution. Recall that three runs is the norm.🤔


--------------------
Scott Meyers
2012 Honda Civic Si - H Street
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
S. Roberts
post Feb 21 2020, 05:00 PM
Post #4





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 763
Joined: 18-August 03
From: Phoenix AZ
Member No.: 172



QUOTE (SMeyers @ Feb 21 2020, 04:25 PM) *
I know in the past limiting TOs was the norm, but regular entries this day were somewhat higher than earlier events. And as always, there is the potential for unknowns that can and do delay an event; timing lights go down, lots of reruns, even perhaps an oil spill on course. And EVERYONE must be off site by.....what...... 5:00? Packed and gone.

So, with sticking to the four runs, and something delays the event substantially, it may not even be enough to limit TOs. Even possible theyd have to be cancelled.

Best to err on the side of caution. Recall that three runs is the norm.🤔


Although I understand Scott's explanation of the reason to go from four runs to three, I, too agree with Todd's suggestion. Three runs is the norm at national events. Both Arizona Region and AZ. Border Region have been giving four (4) runs for several years now,and we are all used to it - and look forward to it too! "Time Onlies" are just that - fun runs, practice runs. In fact, it would seem logical to not even record the times for T/O's. Think of the work it would save to prepare the results by cutting the work in half. At the last event, there were 61 T/O's and 137 entries, almost double the regular entries.

I'm betting if a show of hands of entrants was made, the majority would favor keeping four runs and cutting back or eliminating fun runs.



--------------------
Sharon Roberts
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SMeyers
post Feb 21 2020, 05:13 PM
Post #5





Group: Steering Committee
Posts: 9110
Joined: 6-December 02
From: Glendale AZ
Member No.: 4



I would suggest and support TOs being always limited to three runs, even on days with fewer regular entries. Nothing wrong with those working since before dawn getting off a little early sometimes. Might even allow a stop on the way home for a little beer and pizza relaxation time!👍

And like Sharon, Im from a time when TOs were only given if there was extra time on a given day, and went for $1.00/run, handed to the starter each run. I also see no need for posting TO times, especially when drivers are car-swapping. 🤔


--------------------
Scott Meyers
2012 Honda Civic Si - H Street
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dave H
post Feb 21 2020, 08:27 PM
Post #6





Group: Steering Comm., voting member
Posts: 1495
Joined: 27-June 07
From: Chandler, AZ
Member No.: 1122



So TO's only got 3 runs as well. For those of you who didn't stick around, tear down crew left the site right at 4pm, that's when we're supposed to be gone. And I know at least 2 of the people that were there for tear down were people that were there at 6am for setup, it makes for very long days...

So some quick math....

We had 137 competition entries, and 56 TO entires. So in total, we had 411 laps run in competition, and 168 laps in to's. If we ran 4 runs for everyone, it would have added an additional 137 laps to comp runs, to a total of 548 laps in comp. If you look at it as we were able to get a total of about 580 laps in before we had to be offsite, you're basically looking at 30 laps for to's if we did 4 laps for comp... that's not even enough to get everyone one TO run to get us out by 4pm, and then there's still tear down time. Granted, this is all taking a lot of assumptions into account, but you can get the idea of where I'm going with it.

I never like making the call for 3 runs in comps, but at last weeks event it was the correct call.


--------------------
Dave Hurt
Director
Chief of Course and other things
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SEymann
post Feb 21 2020, 09:44 PM
Post #7





Group: AZ Region Member
Posts: 2101
Joined: 14-January 03
Member No.: 16



I would also suggest that we start on time (or earlier) and expedite worker changeover. No more than 25 second launch interval ( since we no longer use a loop in the course ). With the current number of entrants, we could easily do 4 runs and adjust TO runs as needed.

I thought that the AMP rule was no more cars on track after 4 and off site by 5. Did that change?


--------------------
Steve Eymann
Turning money into noise
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pjp7212
post Feb 24 2020, 08:02 AM
Post #8





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 5
Joined: 20-January 20
Member No.: 242456



QUOTE (SEymann @ Feb 21 2020, 10:44 PM) *
I would also suggest that we start on time (or earlier) and expedite worker changeover. No more than 25 second launch interval ( since we no longer use a loop in the course ). With the current number of entrants, we could easily do 4 runs and adjust TO runs as needed.

I thought that the AMP rule was no more cars on track after 4 and off site by 5. Did that change?


I agree with this. Starting 30 mins earlier and having the next work group staged at/ near the gate as the group is finishing the last lap? Also assigning work positions at check as well?

Just my $0.02!!


--------------------
Preston Padilla
2018 SS 1LE
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bob Lob Law
post Feb 24 2020, 02:24 PM
Post #9





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 80
Joined: 8-March 16
Member No.: 175044



QUOTE (Dave H @ Feb 21 2020, 09:27 PM) *
So TO's only got 3 runs as well. For those of you who didn't stick around, tear down crew left the site right at 4pm, that's when we're supposed to be gone. And I know at least 2 of the people that were there for tear down were people that were there at 6am for setup, it makes for very long days...

So some quick math....

We had 137 competition entries, and 56 TO entires. So in total, we had 411 laps run in competition, and 168 laps in to's. If we ran 4 runs for everyone, it would have added an additional 137 laps to comp runs, to a total of 548 laps in comp. If you look at it as we were able to get a total of about 580 laps in before we had to be offsite, you're basically looking at 30 laps for to's if we did 4 laps for comp... that's not even enough to get everyone one TO run to get us out by 4pm, and then there's still tear down time. Granted, this is all taking a lot of assumptions into account, but you can get the idea of where I'm going with it.

I never like making the call for 3 runs in comps, but at last weeks event it was the correct call.

I appreciate that, and its a hard call to make at 9:30 in the morning. We can only cram in so many runs in a day. In my view, comp should get 4 and TO get whatever is left. It would be easier to make a more accurate guess if it doesn't have to be made until TOs start in the afternoon.


--------------------
Todd A.
HS Focus SVT
SSC Scion FRS
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SMeyers
post Feb 24 2020, 03:55 PM
Post #10





Group: Steering Committee
Posts: 9110
Joined: 6-December 02
From: Glendale AZ
Member No.: 4



QUOTE (Bob Lob Law @ Feb 24 2020, 02:24 PM) *
I appreciate that, and its a hard call to make at 9:30 in the morning. We can only cram in so many runs in a day. In my view, comp should get 4 and TO get whatever is left. It would be easier to make a more accurate guess if it doesn't have to be made until TOs start in the afternoon.

The call for number of runs has to be made at the start of the second runs of the *first run group*, so the drivers know in time to mentally adjust. And then all following groups must follow suit. Cant make that call later.

Agree with part "A". cool.gif


--------------------
Scott Meyers
2012 Honda Civic Si - H Street
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bob Lob Law
post Feb 25 2020, 07:49 PM
Post #11





Group: Autocrosser
Posts: 80
Joined: 8-March 16
Member No.: 175044



QUOTE (SMeyers @ Feb 24 2020, 03:55 PM) *
QUOTE (Bob Lob Law @ Feb 24 2020, 02:24 PM) *
I appreciate that, and its a hard call to make at 9:30 in the morning. We can only cram in so many runs in a day. In my view, comp should get 4 and TO get whatever is left. It would be easier to make a more accurate guess if it doesn't have to be made until TOs start in the afternoon.

The "call" for number of runs has to be made at the start of the second runs of the *first run group*, so the drivers know in time to mentally adjust. And then all following groups must follow suit. Can't make that call later.

Agree with part "A". cool.gif


If there are always 4 comp runs, then the call would not need to be made until the start of TOs.


--------------------
Todd A.
HS Focus SVT
SSC Scion FRS
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 31st March 2020 - 05:50 PM